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	<title>Comments for Best Practices for Legal Education</title>
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	<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org</link>
	<description>A Vision and a Road Map</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:43:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Educating Teachers:  On Becoming a Student Again at the Summer Institute for Clinical Teaching by blissgsu</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/06/26/educating-teachers-on-becoming-a-student-again-at-the-summer-institute-for-clinical-teaching/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>blissgsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=913#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>The labels may differ depending upon one&#039;s point of view.  &quot;Mission&quot; can also be viewed as one&#039;s goal.  As BP encourages, goals should be articulated in terms of desired outcomes - what result is it that you wish to have occur?   Depending upon the context, goals can be either short term or long-term, defined for a particular class session or an entire program.  

One example we discussed at the institute related to teaching students how to form an effective attorney-client relationship.  One aspect of that is the goal of establishing rapport.  So establishing rapport would be the desired result. 

The next step is for the teacher to consider what information will be considered as evidence that the goal is met?  I view this under the category of &quot;measure&quot; or assessment.  Depending upon what is being taught, you will be able to achieve different levels of &quot;proof&quot;.  Wiggins believes that assessment is about &quot;judicious sampling.&quot; 

As a group, we discussed the kinds of things that would satisfy us that the goal of establishing rapport was met:  some of our ideas included client disclosure of harmful or embarrassing facts, client asking questions, frequent communication by the client, ease of conversation, body language, etc.

Evidence that may indicate rapport was not being established might be body language, lack of self-disclosure, the lawyer&#039;s difficulty in getting information, etc.

The next step would be the planning the &quot;method&quot; - what kinds of learning experiences and instruction must be engineered to teach students how to work with clients to develop rapport.  This could be a mixture of activities, including teaching an understanding of the inhibitors of client communication, role plays where students practice conversations with one another, and simulations involving the use of actors, volunteers or others.

Of course, I am going to be developing more detailed examples this summer as I plan for some new classes in the fall, including interdisciplinary classes.  I will share my progress here and hope that others will offer their ideas as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The labels may differ depending upon one&#8217;s point of view.  &#8220;Mission&#8221; can also be viewed as one&#8217;s goal.  As BP encourages, goals should be articulated in terms of desired outcomes &#8211; what result is it that you wish to have occur?   Depending upon the context, goals can be either short term or long-term, defined for a particular class session or an entire program.  </p>
<p>One example we discussed at the institute related to teaching students how to form an effective attorney-client relationship.  One aspect of that is the goal of establishing rapport.  So establishing rapport would be the desired result. </p>
<p>The next step is for the teacher to consider what information will be considered as evidence that the goal is met?  I view this under the category of &#8220;measure&#8221; or assessment.  Depending upon what is being taught, you will be able to achieve different levels of &#8220;proof&#8221;.  Wiggins believes that assessment is about &#8220;judicious sampling.&#8221; </p>
<p>As a group, we discussed the kinds of things that would satisfy us that the goal of establishing rapport was met:  some of our ideas included client disclosure of harmful or embarrassing facts, client asking questions, frequent communication by the client, ease of conversation, body language, etc.</p>
<p>Evidence that may indicate rapport was not being established might be body language, lack of self-disclosure, the lawyer&#8217;s difficulty in getting information, etc.</p>
<p>The next step would be the planning the &#8220;method&#8221; &#8211; what kinds of learning experiences and instruction must be engineered to teach students how to work with clients to develop rapport.  This could be a mixture of activities, including teaching an understanding of the inhibitors of client communication, role plays where students practice conversations with one another, and simulations involving the use of actors, volunteers or others.</p>
<p>Of course, I am going to be developing more detailed examples this summer as I plan for some new classes in the fall, including interdisciplinary classes.  I will share my progress here and hope that others will offer their ideas as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Educating Teachers:  On Becoming a Student Again at the Summer Institute for Clinical Teaching by Roy Stuckey</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/06/26/educating-teachers-on-becoming-a-student-again-at-the-summer-institute-for-clinical-teaching/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Stuckey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=913#comment-1476</guid>
		<description>Lisa,

Can you give us a specific example of mission, method, and measure?

Roy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa,</p>
<p>Can you give us a specific example of mission, method, and measure?</p>
<p>Roy</p>
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		<title>Comment on Law Schools Engaged in Reform Process by Paula M. Young</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/best-practices/law-schools-engaged-in-reform-process/#comment-1470</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula M. Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/best-practices/law-schools-engaged-in-reform-process/#comment-1470</guid>
		<description>We have a curriculum that empahsizes legal research and writing, ADR, the lawyer as problem solver, and practical skills.  Our faculty has over 250 years of law practice experience.

Let me know if you want more specific information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have a curriculum that empahsizes legal research and writing, ADR, the lawyer as problem solver, and practical skills.  Our faculty has over 250 years of law practice experience.</p>
<p>Let me know if you want more specific information.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Contribution of Board of Trustees Members to Best Practices Movement by icodini</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/03/04/contribution-of-board-of-trustees-members-to-best-practices-movement/#comment-1468</link>
		<dc:creator>icodini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=731#comment-1468</guid>
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		<title>Comment on Best Practices and Supreme Court Nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor: the Importance/Impact of Experience &amp; Intercultural Knowledge by President Obama nominates New York State Judge Sonia Sotomayor to the U.S. Supreme Court &#171; Diversity at Albany Law School</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/05/31/best-practices-and-supreme-court-nominee-judge-sonia-sotomayor-the-importanceimpact-of-experience-intercultural-knowledge/#comment-1461</link>
		<dc:creator>President Obama nominates New York State Judge Sonia Sotomayor to the U.S. Supreme Court &#171; Diversity at Albany Law School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=892#comment-1461</guid>
		<description>[...] more commentary on the nominee, Click Here Albany Law Professor comments on nomination, Click [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more commentary on the nominee, Click Here Albany Law Professor comments on nomination, Click [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Collaboration Experiment:  Letting the Students Teach by Lisa Bliss</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/06/16/collaboration-experiment-letting-the-students-teach/#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Bliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=908#comment-1456</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing this experience and the excellent results.  I am developing interdisciplinary classes between medical students and law students and have been considering doing something similar.  Each group serves the same low income population, and I have been looking for new ways to explore how to help students understand poverty and the constellation of medical and legal issues that often come with it.  I would love to hear more about how others are giving students opportunities to teach one another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing this experience and the excellent results.  I am developing interdisciplinary classes between medical students and law students and have been considering doing something similar.  Each group serves the same low income population, and I have been looking for new ways to explore how to help students understand poverty and the constellation of medical and legal issues that often come with it.  I would love to hear more about how others are giving students opportunities to teach one another.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Roy Stuckey Weighs in on Clinicians&#8217; Job Security by justinmyers</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/05/26/roy-stuckey-weighs-in-on-clinicians-job-security/#comment-1397</link>
		<dc:creator>justinmyers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=889#comment-1397</guid>
		<description>Professor Alan M. Lerner, responds to Professor Stuckey: 
Friends,

I have been following this stream, also, as well as the discussion in Cleveland, and before. Roy&#039;s point about curriculum is essential.  I would add, however, that status has a natural impact on the impact that we can have on curriculum. If those of us law teachers who, using experiential methods whose validity has been attested to by the scientific community, focus on our students future role and skills as lawyers, their professionalism, and the critical force that they, as lawyers, can exert in our communities and society, don&#039;t have relatively equal status, it seems to me unlikely that we will be able to exert significant impact on curriculum.

I would like to offer another thought to the discussion. At page 94 of the Carnegie Report, the point is made that clinical education has not articulated an adequate &quot;pedagogogical theory of legal practice.&quot; While I am not convinced that I fully understand, or to the extent that I understand, agree with that indictment, I do think that we should build our demand for equality on a base of a definition or theory of legal education. If, under an acceptable theory of legal education what we do is as important as what teachers of theory and doctrine do, then our expectation of equal role and equal treatment - in curricular influence and in security - should follow. As a start, Carnegie, and pretty much every US law school of which I am aware, claims that they - using the Landell/Socaratic model - teach their students to &quot;think like lawyers.&quot;
All of us who have actually invested a significant amount of our lives being lawyers for real, human clients,, and reflecting upon what that means and requires, know that the thinking of lawyers is far more complex than what passes for teaching students to think like lawyers in the modern version of the Langdell/Socratic model. For one thing, good lawyers can and do consider their client&#039;s context, as well as the emotional forces, including deeply held values, at work within themselves, their clients, their adversaries, the tribunals before whom they plead their clients&#039; matters (Yes, you, too, Justice Scalia!), and the practical skills that are necessary to make theory approach reality.

Chapters 1 &amp; 2 of Best Practices for Legal Education contain a thorough discussion of the need to articulate goals (How would we expect one of our students to plan a case or help a client without clarifying and articulating goals and priorities?), and what they should encompass. Yet, I think that we need something on the order of a short statement, not more than a couple of sentences that captures our meaning, and that we can share with, perhaps, the ABA, the AALS, etc.

Here is a note that I scribbled down at the lunch table in Cleveland during the discussion (edited with some thoughts from my dear colleague Lou Rulli, though I take full responisbility). If anyone thinks that my suggestion that we develop a short &quot;theory of the case&quot; or &quot;theme&quot;  is worth pursuing, perhaps it can help to advance the ball. If not, not.

&quot;Legal education is the preparation of our students to become, to the best of their ability, critical thinking, ethical, professionally skilled, and socially and emotionally aware lawyers for their clients, who understand their role, and obligation to serve, are capable of understanding their clients and the context from which they and their legal problems emerge, and who contribute positively as members of their communities, and of the legal profession.&quot;  

-Alan
[posted with consent of author]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Alan M. Lerner, responds to Professor Stuckey:<br />
Friends,</p>
<p>I have been following this stream, also, as well as the discussion in Cleveland, and before. Roy&#8217;s point about curriculum is essential.  I would add, however, that status has a natural impact on the impact that we can have on curriculum. If those of us law teachers who, using experiential methods whose validity has been attested to by the scientific community, focus on our students future role and skills as lawyers, their professionalism, and the critical force that they, as lawyers, can exert in our communities and society, don&#8217;t have relatively equal status, it seems to me unlikely that we will be able to exert significant impact on curriculum.</p>
<p>I would like to offer another thought to the discussion. At page 94 of the Carnegie Report, the point is made that clinical education has not articulated an adequate &#8220;pedagogogical theory of legal practice.&#8221; While I am not convinced that I fully understand, or to the extent that I understand, agree with that indictment, I do think that we should build our demand for equality on a base of a definition or theory of legal education. If, under an acceptable theory of legal education what we do is as important as what teachers of theory and doctrine do, then our expectation of equal role and equal treatment &#8211; in curricular influence and in security &#8211; should follow. As a start, Carnegie, and pretty much every US law school of which I am aware, claims that they &#8211; using the Landell/Socaratic model &#8211; teach their students to &#8220;think like lawyers.&#8221;<br />
All of us who have actually invested a significant amount of our lives being lawyers for real, human clients,, and reflecting upon what that means and requires, know that the thinking of lawyers is far more complex than what passes for teaching students to think like lawyers in the modern version of the Langdell/Socratic model. For one thing, good lawyers can and do consider their client&#8217;s context, as well as the emotional forces, including deeply held values, at work within themselves, their clients, their adversaries, the tribunals before whom they plead their clients&#8217; matters (Yes, you, too, Justice Scalia!), and the practical skills that are necessary to make theory approach reality.</p>
<p>Chapters 1 &amp; 2 of Best Practices for Legal Education contain a thorough discussion of the need to articulate goals (How would we expect one of our students to plan a case or help a client without clarifying and articulating goals and priorities?), and what they should encompass. Yet, I think that we need something on the order of a short statement, not more than a couple of sentences that captures our meaning, and that we can share with, perhaps, the ABA, the AALS, etc.</p>
<p>Here is a note that I scribbled down at the lunch table in Cleveland during the discussion (edited with some thoughts from my dear colleague Lou Rulli, though I take full responisbility). If anyone thinks that my suggestion that we develop a short &#8220;theory of the case&#8221; or &#8220;theme&#8221;  is worth pursuing, perhaps it can help to advance the ball. If not, not.</p>
<p>&#8220;Legal education is the preparation of our students to become, to the best of their ability, critical thinking, ethical, professionally skilled, and socially and emotionally aware lawyers for their clients, who understand their role, and obligation to serve, are capable of understanding their clients and the context from which they and their legal problems emerge, and who contribute positively as members of their communities, and of the legal profession.&#8221;  </p>
<p>-Alan<br />
[posted with consent of author]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Learning From Medical School About Assessment by TF a survivor</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2008/02/06/learning-from-medical-school-about-assessment/#comment-1376</link>
		<dc:creator>TF a survivor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 19:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.wordpress.com/?p=142#comment-1376</guid>
		<description>To Ms. Antoinette Sedillo Lopez.
The horrific impact of a victim of domestic violence, at its worst - attempted murder, when one is also older (over 50), disabled (physically) &amp; unable to work i.e. $ destitute; rendered homeless &amp; critically injured &amp;  ill within minutes-  is an issue ignored by the two branches of the law; enforcement &amp; prosecution. Thus its failure to protect creates an unimaginable nightmare that seriously adversely impacts our ability to stay alive &amp; complicates any health care needs.   Denied our civil, legal rights we become a disdained burden on society esp. in ER situations. 1) I&#039;d like to interact with you to add to your knowledge &amp; perhaps missed issues; esp in rural areas &amp; how to help doctors ID DV victims sooner. 2) the impact of DV PTSD is negligibly understood esp. its interaction with &#039;justice denied&#039; and 3) we are a group ignored in the current national discussion on health care; &amp; are the peak of the iceberg of baby boomers our husbands are trying to kill off or dump us onto society --- because we are denied our &#039;legal voices&#039;.  Respectfully, 5/28/09</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Ms. Antoinette Sedillo Lopez.<br />
The horrific impact of a victim of domestic violence, at its worst &#8211; attempted murder, when one is also older (over 50), disabled (physically) &amp; unable to work i.e. $ destitute; rendered homeless &amp; critically injured &amp;  ill within minutes-  is an issue ignored by the two branches of the law; enforcement &amp; prosecution. Thus its failure to protect creates an unimaginable nightmare that seriously adversely impacts our ability to stay alive &amp; complicates any health care needs.   Denied our civil, legal rights we become a disdained burden on society esp. in ER situations. 1) I&#8217;d like to interact with you to add to your knowledge &amp; perhaps missed issues; esp in rural areas &amp; how to help doctors ID DV victims sooner. 2) the impact of DV PTSD is negligibly understood esp. its interaction with &#8216;justice denied&#8217; and 3) we are a group ignored in the current national discussion on health care; &amp; are the peak of the iceberg of baby boomers our husbands are trying to kill off or dump us onto society &#8212; because we are denied our &#8216;legal voices&#8217;.  Respectfully, 5/28/09</p>
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		<title>Comment on THE ROLE OF CRITICAL THEORY SCHOLARSHIP IN BEST PRACTICES by cbgrose</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/05/07/the-role-of-critical-theory-scholarship-in-best-practices/#comment-1314</link>
		<dc:creator>cbgrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 12:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=869#comment-1314</guid>
		<description>Peter Knapp and I have created a course at William Mitchell called &quot;The Practice of Theory:  a critical theory course for clinic students.&quot;  It is a seminar open to students who are currently in a client representation clinic, or have taken such a clinic previously.  The course is designed around four theory units -- Critical Lawyering Theory, Narrative Theory, Feminist Legal Theory, and Critical Race Theory -- each of which is paired with a practice unit  -- interviewing, case theory, counseling and persuasion.  So we spend one week on, say, Critical Lawyering Theory (a reading or two), and then the following week applying that theory to a hypothetical client situation involving, say, interviewing.  
We just taught the course for the first time this past semester, and found it fun and exciting and challenging beyond our wildest dreams.  The theory-practice spiral is a fascinating and rich tool to enhance students&#039; understanding of their power and role as lawyers, and therefore fits beautifully within the best practices framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Knapp and I have created a course at William Mitchell called &#8220;The Practice of Theory:  a critical theory course for clinic students.&#8221;  It is a seminar open to students who are currently in a client representation clinic, or have taken such a clinic previously.  The course is designed around four theory units &#8212; Critical Lawyering Theory, Narrative Theory, Feminist Legal Theory, and Critical Race Theory &#8212; each of which is paired with a practice unit  &#8212; interviewing, case theory, counseling and persuasion.  So we spend one week on, say, Critical Lawyering Theory (a reading or two), and then the following week applying that theory to a hypothetical client situation involving, say, interviewing.<br />
We just taught the course for the first time this past semester, and found it fun and exciting and challenging beyond our wildest dreams.  The theory-practice spiral is a fascinating and rich tool to enhance students&#8217; understanding of their power and role as lawyers, and therefore fits beautifully within the best practices framework.</p>
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		<title>Comment on AALS Steps Forward on Best Practices, Carnegie and LEARN Recommendations by glesnerfinesb</title>
		<link>http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/2009/05/04/aals-steps-forward-on-best-practices-carnegie-and-learn-recommendations/#comment-1285</link>
		<dc:creator>glesnerfinesb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bestpracticeslegaled.albanylawblogs.org/?p=859#comment-1285</guid>
		<description>If the AALS request causes faculty to share this information even within their own schools, it will have generated important conversationst that will advance teaching and learning.  So often we treat our classroom doors as though they were bedroom doors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the AALS request causes faculty to share this information even within their own schools, it will have generated important conversationst that will advance teaching and learning.  So often we treat our classroom doors as though they were bedroom doors.</p>
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